MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

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MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von Hotline-Frage » 11 Jan 2018, 18:34

Hello,
I spent some time studying the manual and making tests. I still can't figure out the speed profile of this controller and still can't run this new Roco loco on my software-automated layout. I really like the sound of this loco/controller and I am trying hard to keep it rather than replace with an ESU Loksound - as I did with my other Roco locos to be able to control via software.
1) What is the actual acceleration/deceleration constant for CV3 and CV4? The manual says "The value multiplied by 0.9". However, a simple test with a stop watch shows a constant of approx 0.543. Is the stop time linear across all 126 speed steps or affected by some CVs other than CV121/122/123/394, which are all 0 in this case?
3) Is there a way to get a linear speed profile using the three-point method CV29.4=0? I did many tests with CV2, CV5, and CV6 but lower speed steps are always bended.
4) Is there a way to get a linear speed profile using the speed table CV29.4=1? I did many tests but lower speed steps are always bended. How do I get a linear speed profile?
5) What is the effect of CV2, CV5, and CV6 when speed table (CV29) is active? According to NMRA standards these CV should have no effect. However, my tests show some infuence on CV2 and CV5 even when the speed table mode is active. The manual says "CV29 Bit 4 - Individual speed table: 1 = on, according to CV ‘s # 67 – 94" but this seems not the case.
6) Is there a function key mapping to activate Acceleration/deceleration trimming in CV23 and CV24? The manual says these value are "temporary": how can these values be activated and deactivated on a temporarily base?
7) What CVs define acceleration/deceleration/speed for the F15 mode "Lok Fahrt"?
8) How can individual sounds be played only when the main sound function is on? I couldn't find any instruction in the manual.
9) Is there any description for the 3rd CV in the FX sound sample configuration (i.e. loop parameters etc)?

Thanks!
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Re: MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von ZimoGuru » 11 Jan 2018, 18:35

Dear Requester!

1) Like You can read in the manual:
Value of CV 3/4 multiplied by 0.9 is the time in seconds for reaching full-speed (CV 3) or full-stopp (CV 4).
The stop-time is linear across all speed-steps.
But the speed is not linear across all speed-steps.

3) With the three-point-methode it’s not possible to get a linear speed profile.
You can do it by using the 28-point-methode.

4) In contrast to all other decoder manufacturers, ZIMO decoders are aware that the characteristic curve is logarithmic in the lower drive range. Only this allows the extremely good slow-down characteristics (with correct motor CV settings)
- for which the ZIMO decoders are known - even with "problematic" motors. A linear characteristic also does not reflect the driving behavior of a real locomotive.
Therefore, you can use CV # 67 to CV # 94 to set a linear or oppositely curved characteristic, but you have to over-rule the logarithmic scale at the lower range of the throttl by entering higher CV values (hence CV # 67, # 68, # 69 ...)
than usual. Therefore, it is NOT CV # 67 <# 68 <# 69 <# 70 .... In the upper drive range please proceed linearly, so CV # 90 <# 91 <# 92 <# 93 <# 94 (CV # 94 is usually 255).
Another tip:
If you have an MXULFA (ZIMO Programmer), you can set the linear characteristic much more easily (than by setting the CVs directly), if you use the free PC software ZCS (available on our homepage).
There you have a graphical interface for the free characteristic (controllers that set the CV # 67 - # 94 in the background), and you can immediately see the behavior on the decoder.
The values of CV # 67 and CV # 94 depend on the respective engine in the locomotive.

5) If the 28-point-methode is activated, the CVs 2, 5 and 6 have no effect.

6) No there is no function-key mapping to use this CVs.
For teporaryly activating of this CVs please use the POM-mode.

7) It depends on which sound-project is loaded into the decoder.
Normally it canges the sound-sample only without any effect to the speed-acceleration/deceleration.

8) CV 311 = 0

9) No, there is no (official) description
Loops are defined in the sound-project.



Best regards
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Pascher

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Re: MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von Hotline-Frage » 11 Jan 2018, 18:35

Hi Andreas,

Thank you for taking the time! Really appreciated. I did read the English version of the manual and your answers below but still can't figure out the speed profile of this loco / decoder.

1) "Value of CV 3/4 multiplied by 0.9 is the time in seconds for reaching full-speed (CV 3) or full-stopp (CV 4)."

>>> This loco stops from full speed step 126 in 50.54s with CV4=100. 100*.9=90s not 50.54s. This is not NRMA compliant: see attachment at #55 and #60.

For the rest of your answers: My question is very simple: How do I get a linear speed curve from this controller? I can easily do it via 3-point or speed table with all other brands I ran into. Zimo is the only one that doesn't produce a linear curve. Before I sell it on eBay and replace it with a dcc compliant brand: is it possible to get a linear response or not?

5) If the 28-point-methode is activated, the CVs 2, 5 and 6 have no effect.
>>> Apparently you haven't tested this functionality in a while: They do have effect in this decoder! Try yourself changing CV2 and CV 5 with speed table active and you will see!

8) CV 311 = 0

>>> Please read my question: How can individual sounds be played only when the main sound function is on?

Thanks!
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Re: MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von ZimoGuru » 11 Jan 2018, 18:35

Dear Requester!

At first I want to ask You, why You call me Andreas? My name is Mr Pascher.
We don’t know each other personally. So there is no reason to call me by my first name.

And now the answers to Your questions:

1) CVs 3 and 4:
I tested it again here in the last 10 minutes.
It works correctly:
CV 4 = 20  approx. 18 seconds to stop
CV 4 = 40  approx. 36 seconds to stop
CV 4 = 100  approx. 90 seconds to stop
Maybe You activated the shunting-mode in Your loco?


2) 28-point-methode:
Ok, here You are rigth.
There is a bug in the software.
I reported it tot he developpment-department.


3) CV 311:
Sorry, my fault.
Please set CV 311 = CV 310

Best regards
Die Antwort wurde nach bestem Wissen und Gewissen erstellt!

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Pascher

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Re: MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von Hotline-Frage » 11 Jan 2018, 18:37

Dear Mr Pascher!

Here are the results of my 2nd and final test (ESU ECoS, DCC 126 speed steps, no function active):

1) write CV8=8
2) set speed step to 126
3) wait 60s
4) set speed step to 0 and start stopwatch
5) wait until the motor is completely silent and stop stopwatch

As you can see the costant is 0.55 NOT 0.9!
CV4 T T/CV4
25 14.09 0.564
50 27.90 0.558
100 55.19 0.552
150 82.56 0.550
200 110.00 0.550
250 137.66 0.551
As for my other questions, let me try for the final time:

1) what values do I have to enter in CV2/5/6 to get a linear speed profile in 3-point mode?

2) what values do I have to enter in CV67-CV94 to get a linear speed profile in speed table mode?

Thanks!

Cesare


ps. the reason I previously addressed you as Andreas means no disrespect: it is consuetude in the English language to address people via email by their first name. It is also consuetude to thank a paying customer who takes the time to report defects and in doing so helps you improve your products!
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Re: MX645 P16 V37.0 (Roco 78143)

Beitrag von ZimoGuru » 11 Jan 2018, 18:41

Dear Mr Garlati!

CVs 3 and 4:
From here I can’t determine, why Your decoder does not work correctly.
Maybe there is a value different 0 in the CVs 23 and 24?
Or the shunting-mode is activated?
Please try CV 8 = 0 and test again (factory reset).
(Thereafter You can reset the decoder again to the values of the sound-project by doing CV 8 = 8.)

1) As I wrote You before, it’s not possible to get a linear speed-profile using the 3-point-mode.
2) Using the 28-point-mode You can do it similar to the added picture

The curve needs to be curved upwards.
The exact values You need to verify by tests, because they are depenting on the loco and the sound-project.

(Here in Europe, we never call somebody, whom we don’t know, by his first name; neither in English nor in German language.)

Best regards
Dateianhänge
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pic001.jpg (209.4 KiB) 11633 mal betrachtet
Die Antwort wurde nach bestem Wissen und Gewissen erstellt!

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Pascher

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